328: Connection, Communication & Intimacy - a conversation with my husband about creating an 'aspirational marriage'

Ella (00:00:07) - Hey, you're on air with Ella and today I'm joined by my very most special guest, my husband.

Jeremy (00:00:25) - Well, hi.

Ella (00:00:27) - Act natural. Babe.

Jeremy (00:00:28) - I'm sorry. I'm trying. Trying very hard.

Ella (00:00:30) - Jeremy, welcome to the show.

Jeremy (00:00:32) - Thank you.

Ella (00:00:33) - I don't call you Jeremy. Normally, I just call you babe. Okay, so, listen, we did a show together before we did episode 186, and it is a must listen, if I may say so myself. I'm proud of that.

Jeremy (00:00:46) - I have listened to it multiple times.

Ella (00:00:48) - Oh, really? Are you taking your own advice?

Jeremy (00:00:50) - Yes, I am, yes.

Ella - How's it going for you?

Jeremy (00:00:53) - It's fine, it's fine. It's actually my wake up in the morning. Now I listen to the show.

Ella (00:00:57) - So a few questions before we get started. How long have we been married?

Jeremy (00:01:00) - We have been married now. Coming up on 12 years.

Ella (00:01:05) - Remember that time we both forgot our 10th anniversary?

Jeremy (00:01:07) - Yes, but it was nice that your mother actually remembered it. So we actually were reminded at, like, dinner time that we actually had an anniversary.

Ella (00:01:15) - Okay. All true. So how's how's this experience been going for you?

Jeremy (00:01:19) - Actually? What? This whole. Yes, the whole thing.

Jeremy (00:01:30) - The whole thing has been going remarkably well, given that, like everybody else, it's been a very challenging time.

Ella (00:01:42) - Okay. Why are we here? We're here because I just like to talk to you every once in a while and check in with you and see how you're going with a microphone in my hand and recording the entire conversation. Well, good. No, that's not really why.

Ella (00:01:53) - The reason why is because I thought it was important. First of all, we're in the middle of the whole Covid sitch and we're doing fine. Like I would say, we're even thriving.

Jeremy (00:02:02) - I would say we have done remarkably well given the challenges, just like everybody else, that we've had to go through.

Ella (00:02:09) - Yeah. And as I do, as sort of chatting about it and talking about it on social and I said, you know, we are absolutely not the experts on marriage or on relationships or on communication or really on any topic whatsoever. However, I love talking about relationship and I want to talk about relationship with you.

Jeremy (00:02:29) - Well, good. I think it's a good time to do it. And we have certainly, I think, learned quite a lot over the last 4 to 5 months, which is, you know, been something that has been unusual, not something that, uh, that we expected that we, that was going to be imposed on us. Yeah.

Ella (00:02:44) - Well, I'm going to share with you when I reached out to listeners on Instagram, as I do, Brittany said, relationships are hard, but so worth it.

Ella (00:02:52) - I want to know any and all open communication tips that you may have. And I was like, okay, we'll take that on all of the communication tips. Go!

Jeremy (00:03:02) - Um, thank you. Thank you for the question. Um, so when I think of the communication tips, um, actually you had mentioned this when, when we were kicking this thing off. And I actually go back to something that you mentioned on one of your shows. I don't know which one. It was when you started talking about the different love languages. And I think those are probably the most important thing that I feel I have to understand with you, because if I understand those, I'm not going to shoot myself in the foot trying to to to communicate something when it's just on the completely the wrong wavelength or delivered in the wrong manner.

Ella (00:03:41) - Yeah, I think a lot of people are familiar with the book The Five Love Languages, and if you're not, fine, I'll link to it. But here's a quick rundown.

Ella (00:03:49) - Okay, there are five love languages and they are known as number one. These are not in any particular order, by the way, acts of service, physical touch, receiving gifts, words of affirmation, and quality time. Okay, so I'll share those again in a minute. I'm sure many of you have heard of these before, but I don't understand why. I don't know when you're in high school or when you turn 18, or when you decide you're going to get in relationship. Like the whole world should give you this book or, you know, a brief outline of it.

Jeremy (00:04:21) - Yeah, well, I think I think this is important. It's something that when you actually read that book and we started talking about it, um, I felt that it was so accurate in that you can if you're not approaching somebody the correct way, it doesn't matter what you communicate, you're going to end up, as I said, shooting yourself in the foot when you're trying to explain something. And it's it's it's not connecting to them on what you're trying to say because it's not something that is attractive to them.

Ella (00:04:51) - Yeah, you're on the wrong channel. You are speaking the wrong language.

Jeremy (00:04:54) - Right? Right.

Jeremy (00:04:55) - So so it's a good example with you. Giving a gift to you is not actually something that you actually really appreciate. Versus if I actually just put my like, my hand on your arm or do something like that, that means a lot more and it's a lot cheaper for me to.

Jeremy (00:05:15) - I'm not going to.

Ella (00:05:16) - Conflate gift giving with touch. Seen my arm.

Jeremy (00:05:19) - I'm not sure.

Ella (00:05:20) - That's a conclusion I want to reach. I'm not sure I'm co-signing on that just yet, however. Okay, let's share this. So I'm going to say the five again acts of service, physical touch, receiving gifts, words of affirmation, and quality time. Right. Okay. So what are your two? Actually you tell me my two and I'll tell you your two.

Jeremy (00:05:39) - Well, yours definitely is like physical touch. Definitely. And for sure. And I think the other one is the acts of service piece, because you seem to really appreciate when I do something around the house.

Jeremy (00:05:56) - Not that I mean, I'd like to think that I actually do stuff like this is not a one time that I do something around the house, but but.

Ella (00:06:03) - It's so sexy when you do.

Jeremy (00:06:04) - Exactly. So that I do know. So, you know, I'm like, you know what? You know what? Taking out the trash really could be a good thing to go do right now. So so so. But it is I think that's something that obviously something that connects with you.

Jeremy (00:06:19) - Um, so yeah.

Ella (00:06:20) - No, you're so right. Like we just finished kind of just it's too soon to talk about it, but we just finished a major serious renovation in our house. And you leading that renovation and being in charge of the entire project and creating this space for us. It was extremely stressful. And you led that whole effort from start to finish. And that was like such an enormous act of service. Because this isn't about emptying the dishwasher, which also will totally work right every day. You.

Ella (00:06:50) - That was like the biggest act of service in this House represents to me a space you created for us. Like that's hot. That I definitely get more excited about that than jewelry, right? I mean, it makes sense to me, but it shouldn't necessarily make sense to everybody else because they have different love languages.

Jeremy (00:07:07) - Well, it sounds when you first start talking about it. And I remember when you first told me this, I was like, oh, here we go. This is one of these. What?

Jeremy (00:07:14) - What do you mean? Oh, here we what? One of these.

Jeremy (00:07:17) - Well, one of these things that somebody has written about. But it was the very second that I actually identified what it was saying about myself and about you, and it was completely transparent of the way that both of us react to certain situations. And these is what these, these love languages are about.

Ella (00:07:38) - Okay. So yours, in my opinion, are definitely words of affirmation and physical touch.

Jeremy (00:07:45) - I would say so, yes.

Ella (00:07:46) - So it's weird. We have one in common.

Jeremy (00:07:49) - Really. It's so weird.

Jeremy (00:07:50) - Hold on. Oh yes. Yes we do.

Ella (00:07:54) - That's not what the show is.

Jeremy (00:07:55) - Oh I'm sorry.

Ella (00:07:55) - Maybe a little. Okay, so by the way, I'm really sorry, you guys, for the sound not being perfect. Perfect. But the hubs and I are leaning over the same microphone, so sorry. That's all we got. Okay, so acts of service and physical touch or mine and words of affirmation and physical touch are yours. Now, here's why that's important. I might, like, go out of my way using my own love language to do something that I think is so great, or so responsible, or so giving or so whatever, and completely fall short of my objective, which is to nourish you, to make you feel loved, to show you affection, to communicate with you. Because yours is words of affirmation, where mine is acts of service. And I can't figure out why I've fallen short until I realize I'm not speaking your language.

Ella (00:08:41) - Like it took me a long time to figure out that words of affirmation matter, especially since that's not my natural tendency.

Jeremy (00:08:47) - Well, I remember a specific time and I can't remember it. It was in. It was when we lived, um, in our old house, and we had been having a slight disagreement, and what I had done was perfect. I don't really understand why there was any problem about what I had done, but it did cause a little, let's say, tiff between the two of us. And I remember that I actually just put my hand on your back, and it was like there was a absolute dynamic change in the conversation that we were having. It was creating a connection between the two of us. Now, I fully appreciate that with some people, that would probably be basically grounds for, you know, all out war. Yes. But with you and I, that actually has worked well. And you've done the same thing.

Ella (00:09:36) - Yeah. You make me kind of sound like a feral animal.

Jeremy (00:09:39) - Well, no.

Jeremy (00:09:40) - No, but just that connection between the two of you or between the two of us really allowed us to kind of just begin to actually have a conversation about it rather than taking sides. Yeah.

Ella (00:09:51) - No, that's so true. It's so true. And I just think that everybody should have this. I think this should be in the vernacular. I think everybody should know what their partner's love languages are. Um, and if those five don't fit, I've never met anyone that they don't fit for. But if they don't fit, then figure it out and have the conversation. But I want to talk about words of affirmation because again, that's not a natural tendency of mine. You know, you we could we could spend a show peeling back the layers on why or why not, but that is not. My tendency. And when I learned that if I could spend time talking about what's right, if I could spend time telling you what I appreciate about you because I'm showing you, showing, showing, showing, showing, showing, and if it's not coming out of my mouth, I'm falling short.

Ella (00:10:34) - Like I'm so glad I finally figured that out and I can't wait to implement it one day.

Jeremy (00:10:39) - That's I.

Jeremy (00:10:40) - This is wonderful. This is fantastic. We'll be right back, everybody.

Jeremy (00:10:47) - Okay, this is.

Ella (00:10:48) - Ella learning in real time. I will say something. I'll try and speak to this like an adult. But I will say something about physical touch.

Jeremy (00:10:57) - Yeah. Go ahead. Okay.

Ella (00:10:58) - Thank you. I find it so interesting. I hate to give away my secret like this, but I know we already know this about one another. It doesn't matter how mad we are at each other. And can we be honest for a minute at certain points in any intimate relationship, familial, with your loved one, whatever, at some point you're going to want to kill each other. Kind of sorta, right?

Jeremy (00:11:16) - Yes, absolutely.

Ella (00:11:17) - That's all normal, right?

Jeremy (00:11:19) - Apparently so, yes.

Jeremy (00:11:21) - Okay.

Ella (00:11:21) - And I would describe us both as occasionally feeling passionately about our own point of view. Am I still being fair?

Jeremy (00:11:27) - We talked about both of us here.

Jeremy (00:11:28) - Yes, both of us.

Jeremy (00:11:30) - Yes we are.

Jeremy (00:11:31) - That is always true. Yes.

Jeremy (00:11:33) - Okay.

Ella (00:11:34) - And it is so interesting to me. It doesn't matter how angry we are at each other if we touch in some way, if one of us is a grown up and like we make ourselves touch hands or touch arm, or sit right next to each other, or face each other and touch in some way, you get the idea. It diffuses the situation so much.

Jeremy (00:11:56) - Absolutely. And I mean, yes, I mean, it's I think that the best example of that and I mean, if there is if there is a couple out there who has who have not gone through this, but when you're lying in bed and you have had words and you stand kind of your side of the bed, my side of the bed, and you don't touch that kind of permeates the entire room until the next morning you wake up, you still feel bad about it. Um, even though you might not admit it, one touch, even though you could still be mad at the other person, has the ability to just break down the the the overall drama of the situation.

Jeremy (00:12:37) - That's the best way I.

Jeremy (00:12:38) - Could say it. Yeah, like.

Ella (00:12:39) - Quite literally break the.

Jeremy (00:12:40) - Barrier.

Jeremy (00:12:41) - Yeah, absolutely.

Ella (00:12:42) - I mean, we're children, if you think about it. You just you do it. No, you do it. Well, are you going to cross the barrier?

Jeremy (00:12:51) - Well, this is this.

Jeremy (00:12:52) - This is going to a point that that I think is what makes marriage work. And it's if you look at it as these things, as tasks, if you look at these things as, um, items that you have to check the box on, you're going to fail. I mean, I hate to say it, you will will probably have a marriage, but it will be a difficult marriage.

Ella (00:13:11) - Yeah. In your scorekeeping, I find, because I've had that relationship. I don't know about you. Yeah. Um, okay. I totally know about you. You've had it too. Okay. But where your your scorekeeping the whole time, like you're tallying strikes and stars.

Ella (00:13:23) - Well, they did this for me. They did this against me.

Jeremy (00:13:25) - But if you look at it as that, you are working at creating a work of art. If you are trying to create something that is aspirational, then I think you look upon your relationship and what you're trying to do in a completely different way. So I think what you and I have done really well is to remind the other at times is that, like, we we're, we're better than this. And the reason that we're better than this is because we're trying to create an aspirational marriage not only for ourselves, but for our kids, for the people around us, because it's important to us to do this right.

Ella (00:14:04) - You're much more eloquent about this than I am, because I'm the one that says things like, and actually, so did Brittany. And her question to us that I read at the top of the show, marriage is hard work. And I think it is. I think marriage is hard work. But I love when you said, you know, it's not a chore that you go at.

Jeremy (00:14:22) - I think that if you're doing anything in life, if you look at it as something that you just have to get something done, it tends to kind of fall to the lowest common denominator of what actually occurs, you know, or what the result was. Whereas if you actually treat it with something that you take great pride in, in something that you really want to, um, look back on and say, you know what, I really did that or we really did that. Well, it becomes almost an art form at that point. And I think that if both of you start to kind of talk that way, is we can create something that is really special here, not we just need to go through the motions. That's too, too easy to fall into that trap. But if the hard work is when you say, we're going to make something that we are both proud of, and that's not about tactics. It's not about strategies. It's actually about the willingness to try to create something that's wonderful.

Ella (00:15:18) - Yeah, I think it's very, very easy to be the worst of yourself with the people that you're closest to. I mean, unfortunately, I think that might be human nature, what you have brought to me and what being in relationship with you has brought to me is I really want to be the best version of myself. Like I truly want to be the best version of myself, with you and for you and for me in this experience. Okay, switching gears just because, you know, trying to keep it short, trying to keep it punchy unless, you know, will you come back sometime? Can we do this again?

Jeremy (00:15:50) - Well, yes. I think this is kind of similar to what we kind of do on a Sunday morning when we sit and read the paper and have a chat about things. I kind of feel like if this is something you want to do, it's, it's a, it's a good conversation that about some of the topics that that we actually talk fairly regularly about.

Ella (00:16:05) - So you guys heard it here.

Ella (00:16:06) - I want your questions. So leave me a comment in Instagram. You know, I answer all of my direct messages, right? Well, all the legit DMs anyway. So leave us comments. Leave us questions. You can do it on the website too. On air.com. But let's do some rapid fire stuff, okay? Okay, so just tips just in general from living with this feral animal for 12 years, hit us up with just some of your quick and dirty tips.

Jeremy (00:16:31) - So I came up with two and I think you're going to love these two. So the.

Ella (00:16:35) - First I'm already uncomfortable.

Jeremy (00:16:36) - I can. No, no you don't. You're really gonna like this one. So the first one is whenever we have a difficult conversation, the best time to start that conversation is typically two seconds before I'm about to fall into a deep sleep. That's the best time when very serious conversation should be brought up. So when I hear that.

Ella (00:17:01) - Are you using lightning round for sarcasm?

Jeremy (00:17:04) - No no no no no no no no.

Jeremy (00:17:07) - I'm just pointing.

Jeremy (00:17:08) - Out actually.

Ella (00:17:09) - You raise a really good point. First of all, that's not a great strategy. I see that now, allow me to affirm that you might be on to something.

Jeremy (00:17:20) - Well, to be clear, it's actually something that we both have done. Um, and it's something that when something is pressing on you and you've been kind of holding it in and thinking about it all evening about something you're ready to go to sleep and that that kind of I've got to I've got to say something about it. And the other person is just about to fall into like this deep, blissful sleep has no idea that this is something.

Jeremy (00:17:46) - This, this.

Jeremy (00:17:47) - This tidal wave is just about to kind of hit. And as your eyes are closing and then.

Ella (00:17:54) - Where are you going with.

Jeremy (00:17:54) - This?

Jeremy (00:17:55) - That's what I'm saying, is that there is a time and a place for every good conversation. So when you when you have a deep and meaningful conversation, I think the timing and when you talk about it is allowing everybody to have a little preparation so that they understand what it's going to be about.

Jeremy (00:18:11) - Okay.

Ella (00:18:12) - I think that that can really be useful in so many different contexts. I think that sometimes in relationship and again, you guys, not everybody's married, not everybody is partnered up. But I think you can extrapolate some of this for any relationship. And so my version of that would be respect that your partner or the person that you're in relationship with, that they are in their own time and space like they are not in your time and space. They're in their own time and space. And it's such a respectful thing to do, to say, hey, can I talk to you for a minute? Or hey, can I like, can we create some space for us to talk later? Although isn't that really easy to sort of cross the line and be in the we need to talk. I mean, to me, the most terrifying thing you can say to your partner is we need to talk.

Jeremy (00:18:59) - Yes.

Jeremy (00:19:00) - Well, I don't think you need to to have to have the the deeper, meaningful voice.

Jeremy (00:19:04) - Why not?

Jeremy (00:19:05) - Um, but understanding there's a time and place for conversations.

Jeremy (00:19:10) - Or at least.

Ella (00:19:10) - Asking for.

Jeremy (00:19:11) - It. Yeah. I mean, we're talking about the the art of marriage. Well, I think a big piece of the art of marriage is understanding timing and context. And when something is the appropriate time. But at the end of the day, if you're trying to create a marriage that is truly special, you should do better than that. And that's kind of how I feel. I sometimes do things and I'm like, oh man, I can't believe I did that. Like, I really let myself down for what we're trying to create as a marriage. And I think it's important that you understand that you have a responsibility. Uh, it's not always on the other person. It's on you to make sure that you are doing what you need to do.

Ella (00:19:52) - I'm almost certain I said this the last time we were on the air together, in that in episode 186, because it is such a fundamental part of my relationship philosophy.

Ella (00:20:00) - But the best thing that I ever learned about relationship right before the five Love languages is you are 100% responsible for you, not 50% responsible for the relationship, but it's two people being 100% responsible for themselves.

Jeremy (00:20:17) - It is. It's if if you truly are looking to create a incredible relationship, an incredible marriage. Um, you have to take responsibility for the things that you say, the timing of when you say things and the actions that you have behind them.

Ella (00:20:35) - Okay, well, so much for lightning. We're not so much lightning here, but I'm digging it. Okay. Wait. You said you had two.

Jeremy (00:20:40) - I do, so the second one is. It's something that I have learned from you. Um. And it was once I realized this, it made my life so much simpler.

Ella (00:20:49) - I feel like we might be heading towards sarcasm again.

Jeremy (00:20:52) - No, no, not in the slightest. No. What I have learned is, is when you ask me where we're going for dinner, it's actually a rhetorical question.

Jeremy (00:21:01) - So you don't actually really want me to add to it. You just are just asking. So I have now learned that.

Jeremy (00:21:09) - I know.

Ella (00:21:10) - I want you to name all the places that I can say no to them, because it's just as important to know what you don't want.

Jeremy (00:21:16) - Correct.

Jeremy (00:21:17) - So now I just have my list that I have memorized. Seems to be.

Jeremy (00:21:21) - Efficient, yes.

Jeremy (00:21:22) - But it will allow you to actually identify the one that you actually do want to go.

Ella (00:21:26) - To. Okay, it's the same thing when I ask what I should wear. Same.

Jeremy (00:21:30) - Exactly.

Jeremy (00:21:31) - Exactly. It's just like I tell our son when he. When you say that, I just, like, shake my head like, don't answer.

Jeremy (00:21:36) - Don't do it, man. Don't do it.

Jeremy (00:21:38) - Don't step in there, don't step in there. You gotta learn this early on, my son. You got you have to learn.

Jeremy (00:21:44) - Okay.

Ella (00:21:45) - Well, it's actually there's there's a tiny, like, an atom of wisdom in that.

Ella (00:21:49) - And it's something that you taught me about myself very recently, and I'm over being defensive about it, and I'm now actually learning from it. See? I'm growing. Look in front of your eyes. I ask a lot of questions.

Jeremy (00:22:01) - You do like. I'm not really. I don't want to answer.

Jeremy (00:22:04) - You're not really asking a question. You're you're so much as it's a it's a process that.

Jeremy (00:22:10) - You're going through.

Ella (00:22:12) - I'm. Thank you, thank you. I feel like you see me now. So here's the deal. We did an interview ages ago with Gretchen Rubin, and she wrote a book called The Four Tendencies. Brilliant, brilliant stuff. And I realized that I am a questioner and you are an obliger. And this is so important. I'll just. You've got to go back and listen to this show. Of course. I'll just put it in the show notes in the show description so you can just scroll down and look at it. But in obliger, like you are seeking harmony, these aren't personalities, they're tendencies.

Ella (00:22:43) - So in a conversation, your tendency is to build a harmonious result, and mine is to question the hell out of everything until I've broken it down into tiny, tiny, digestible pieces. Steve, do you love this about me?

Jeremy (00:22:56) - Well, yes, but but you are incredibly inquisitive about items, so once you understand that is the way that you get to a conclusion on something. I love the way that your mind works that way because you are looking at it from all angles. I truly mean that. It allows us to actually get to understand what the whole problem is, and you may find a different solution, which is actually the correct solution.

Ella (00:23:22) - Well, just like anything in marriage, like it's fun until it's not, it's cute until it's not. And let's be honest.

Jeremy (00:23:29) - I wouldn't say that. I think I think that it is who you are. It's what you are. It's why this this show is successful is because you have the ability to see things from 360 degrees. And once you understand that who you are, that's a part of that language, of that art form, of letting you express that rather than getting frustrated by it.

Ella (00:23:51) - Well, I didn't realize that I phrase almost everything is a question, and you're living your life in a constant state of jeopardy, like the game show. But I now realize that is me processing and thinking aloud all the time. So now I'm trying to rephrase it. Not so. So everything I say is not posed as some sort of meta question about the universe that you are standing in the kitchen like, am I supposed to answer that? Like, is that a real question for me right now that I'm so no, no, I'm just processing.

Jeremy (00:24:20) - Well, I'll take child rearing for 600 hours. So that's that's what I just say. I just know that's that's kind of how you do it.

Ella (00:24:27) - Okay. Any other quick tips?

Jeremy (00:24:29) - No, I think that's, um. That's it, I.

Jeremy (00:24:31) - Think I have one.

Ella (00:24:32) - Oh, good. Okay. It's not a quick tip, actually. It's a long metaphor. So I was running the other day and I was thinking about having this conversation with you, and I was really.

Ella (00:24:44) - I knew you're you're much more eloquent and you're much more of a romantic than I am, and you're more creative than I am, like expressing marriage as an art form and something aspirational that you're trying to create together. That's beautiful. And it wasn't going to come from me, but I thought something equally as beautiful. Would you like to hear it?

Jeremy (00:24:59) - I would love to. Okay.

Ella (00:25:01) - I was like, you know, marriage is so much like a triathlon.

Jeremy (00:25:05) - Like, I can't wait to see where this is going. Yes.

Ella (00:25:08) - So for those of you who are not familiar, triathlon is the sport of swim bike run. And I was thinking, really, truly, I could stick with me. Here. This is. Really beautiful. You're going to be in tears before this is over.

Jeremy (00:25:20) - What I know about triathlon, given that we both do them, is that it is one of the most painful things you can ever go through. So I cannot wait.

Ella (00:25:27) - But it's worth it in the end.

Ella (00:25:29) - That's not where this metaphor is going. Here's what I was thinking. I was like, everybody's running their own race right in this thing that we call life. And you want your partner in life to be so many different things as you're running your own race and you're not ever you're never biking downhill the whole time. Sometimes you are trudging uphill on nothing but your own two feet, and it's really hard and it's really hot. And sometimes you're flying downhill on a beautiful sunny day. This is a metaphor. You still with me? And sometimes you're in what they call in a triathlon. The transition area in your in between things and you're scrambling and you're trying to get your act together to begin the next thing. And I was like, you know, you could you could take that metaphor and you could run with it a little bit as you are running your own race, because we that's what we do as individuals in this thing called life. You want your partner to be so many different things for you on that race.

Ella (00:26:16) - Sometimes they need to be your cheerleader, like they need to just show up for you and hold that sign and cheer for you and just be like, no matter what you're doing, you got this. You're going. Sometimes you need them to be a coach and give you some feedback and be like, you know, you're looking good, but you might do a bit better if you didn't try to put on a long sleeve top in transition area while you're soaking wet. The only people who have done that will.

Jeremy (00:26:39) - Get that.

Jeremy (00:26:40) - They have no clue. But carry on. Yes.

Jeremy (00:26:43) - Okay, it's a.

Ella (00:26:43) - Really bad idea, you know? Or perhaps you need some water, or maybe you need a little bit of nutrition along the way. So anyway, sometimes you need real feedback from your coach, and sometimes that's the last thing that you need and you just need your cheerleader. And I'll be honest with you, sometimes you just need your partner to be a bystander and to be like, you got this, I'm here.

Ella (00:27:01) - I showed up for you. But I'm just a bystander, you know, in this moment. And I think that is why we say things like marriage is so hard because sometimes it's fun, sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's sweaty and snotty and gritty, and sometimes it's beautiful and you have the wind at your back and your hair is blowing and you're yelling, we as you coast downhill like it's all the things and you are all of the you're the coach, you're the cheerleader, you're the bystander. Like you got my back and you are with me no matter what part of the race that I'm in. Does that.

Jeremy (00:27:33) - Make sense? No, it absolutely does.

Jeremy (00:27:35) - I think, you know, I'll take the analogy just a little farther is, um, you know, when you do three sports like this all in a row, you are very, very rarely good at all. Three there is going to be something you're not very good at. Mine happens to be running. So I see you sprinting away from me when you start.

Jeremy (00:27:54) - Well, no. I'm serious. The point is, is that kind of carrying on your analogy is you're doing a race where you could be really good at, say, swimming. Then you get on to a bike or you start running and you're not quite so good at it. You need somebody who is going to be the cheerleader when you're when you're doing something that you're really good at, but is also someone who's encouraging you and saying, hey, don't give up. This is going to be hard. You got to stick through it because you will come to the end of this thing. The end of the race is when you look at your marriage and you say, you know what? We're doing a pretty flipping good job, all things considered.

Ella (00:28:30) - And then you just start another race.

Jeremy (00:28:32) - Yeah. Then then you're.

Jeremy (00:28:33) - Like, well, you think long and hard about what you're going to do the next one. But yes.

Jeremy (00:28:37) - Yes.

Ella (00:28:38) - Okay. I'm so grateful that you did this with me. Can we please do this again?

Jeremy (00:28:42) - I would love to do this again.

Ella (00:28:44) - If you want us to do this again, hit me up with some questions or some feedback, okay? Love you! and I love you.

Jeremy (00:28:50) - I love you too.

Ella (00:28:51) - No, I love you, boo boo.

Ella (00:28:55) - Bye for now.