300: How to Network Like a Boss + Creating a 'Portfolio Life' - Christina Wallace

ELLA (00:00:12) - Hey, you're on air with Ella, and today I am joined by the wunderkind, Christina Wallace. Welcome to the show. Christina.

Christina W (00:00:19) - Happy to be here. Happy to still be described as a wunderkind.

ELLA (00:00:23) - Yeah. And not a kid, a kind. Yeah, it's elevated.

Christina W (00:00:27) - True.

ELLA (00:00:28) - I am thrilled to have you. And it's fun off air. (I have to say I hate it when podcast hosts do this and they talk about what fun they've had off air.) But Christina and I have just found that we have a bunch of friends in common and it's kind of fun. From where are you speaking to us today? Christina?

Christina W (00:00:44) – I’m joining you from my office in Cambridge at, uh, well, technically Boston, Harvard Business School.

ELLA (00:00:50) - Oh, ever heard of it? Yeah.

Christina W (00:00:51) - Just a little place.

ELLA (00:00:52) - Well, I, we have, like I said, a couple of people in common and one of them suggested that we talk because Christina, we've been talking a lot lately on the show, about second half career transition or possibly even re-entering the workforce or just a lot of people in this pod family have a lot of different interests, and they're having a little bit of trouble sort of clarifying what's next for them. One of the reasons that I wanted to speak with you is because you are the self-described human Venn diagram. And I would love by way of introduction for you to tell us what that means for you. Who are you and what do you do?

Christina W (00:01:34) – That’s a great question. I love that you separated “Who am I” and “What do I do?” Those are different things. So I came upon this phrase, I'm a human Venn diagram. Early in my career when I was first starting, uh, my very first company, and I was going to all these pitch events, and I had to introduce myself quickly so that people could decide whether or not they wanted to talk to me. And I struggled because I've always been interdisciplinary. I double majored, I triple minored. I've worked all over the map in music, in theater, in fashion, in math, in management consulting. And I was like, how do I tell that story without coming across like a hot mess? And so I came up with this phrase, human Venn diagram, because it gave me the chance to, number one, tell you the worlds that I inhabit.

Christina W (00:02:22) - I say, I've built a career at the intersection of business, technology and the arts. So it gives you some sense of where I play, but it also tells you something about me. And that is that I'm interdisciplinary and that I am, uh, multi hyphenated and I'm intentional about those intersections. Like, that's what I bring to the table. It's not just that I, I speak these different languages. It's that I connect them, I see their relationships. I bring people from the different worlds to meet each other. And that's what I bring to the table. So I do various things depending on what day you've talked to me. Right now, I'm a professor at the business school at Harvard. I'm an author, I'm a speaker. What I am is a multihyphenate who loves to think about the chapters of life we're in and how do you design a life that actually fits that season.

ELLA (00:03:12) - This speaks to me so much, and I want to highlight a couple of things that you just said and pull them out. And one is interdisciplinary. And I love that you are drawing connections between the things that you do. And that's actually already an aha for me. Two truths about me. One is, if you asked my parents what I do at a cocktail party, they would stutter for 10 minutes. You know, they would just say, nouns <laughs>

Now, the embarrassing truth is that if you asked me at a cocktail party what I do, I would probably answer you differently just depending on what day it is. Because it makes me feel a little bit messy to say, oh, I do this and I do this, and I own this, and I also do that. It makes it, to me, that doesn't sound, I suppose it could sound like you're bragging, I guess if you're uninformed…

Christina W (00:04:00) - Depends on your tone of voice. Right. One version sounds like bragging another version. It sounds like you're a dilettante who can't make up your mind, you know?

ELLA (00:04:08) – That. <laughs>

Christina W (00:04:09) - Yes.

ELLA (00:04:11) - Yes. Exactly. So this is a struggle that I have and that some of my listeners have. Mm-hmm. . And then we also have those who are not having trouble clarifying necessarily, but they're having trouble believing that they can start a chapter two or start a chapter three, or start a chapter six, depending on where they are in their life. So I wanna talk to you about both, because you introduced me to a concept in a book of yours that I just read, and you introduced me to a concept called a portfolio life. Yes. I just, the expression alone, I love, in fact, conveniently the book is called The Portfolio Life. Can you tell us what you mean by that?

Christina W (00:04:50) - Yes. So I use this phrase to kind of cover these three core tenets. Number one, you are more than any one job or opportunity. Your identity is greater than just that. Number two, diversification is what is going to help you navigate, change and mitigate uncertainty, which is guaranteed to come. Right? That's the world we live in now. And then number three, when, not if, when your needs change, when, when your season of life changes, rebalance your portfolio, just like you would your financial portfolio, this isn't you being flaky. This isn't you flip flopping and no longer caring about that dream you had. It's growing. And it's saying, I need something different. I want something different. So let's design something different.

ELLA (00:05:43) - There's an obvious parallel here, Christina, between managing your financial portfolio, right? And I think first of all, that's a, it's a clever analogy because diversification helps you mitigate risk. It does all of the things that you just laid out. But when you talk about a portfolio life, you're not just talking about income streams. Right. Can you tell us more about what it looks like in practice?

Christina W (00:06:07) - Yes. So, uh, when I think about a portfolio life, it's an alternative way to consider work-life balance. I, I hate that phrase because it makes it sound like your work and your life are an opposition to each other. Like, they should sit on a teeter-totter and somehow like, you know, be perfectly balanced. And that is never true, right? Your work is in the context of your life. So when I think about a portfolio life, I literally imagine drawing a pie chart, and it's allocating percentages just like you would your investments. 40% to this, 10% to that. And you think about all of the things in your life, your work, your family, your friends, your health, your hobbies, your community, religious commitments, rest, right? All of those things as you, you know, envision how you spend your time, you map it out and you think about how it exists in proportion to each other. And those proportions will change dramatically from one season of your life to another. But recognizing how they fit together is part of what brings you that sustainability, which is the word I like better than balance.

ELLA (00:07:15) - Yeah. Balance is, balance is a myth. And, uh, like you, I just, a, I disagree with the premise. Yes. Which is that there are scales, right? Uh, a a much more relate to what I call the life wheel, which is essentially very similar to what you're describing, which is a balance between, I won't, I won't repeat what you just said, but in some seasons, let's say your career will get more attention than say your social life. Mm-hmm. , in some seasons, your financial performance or experience might be outweighing honestly, your spiritual experience, you know? Mm-hmm. . And so, so we are in fact a limited resource. Our time is a limited resource, and I think it's really, really useful to look at our lives as a 360 degree experience, and how, like we start to know when it's out of balance. Mm-hmm. , have you had an experience in your life where you felt like, okay, this has taken up way too much of my pie.

Christina W (00:08:09) - Yeah. I mean, it, it, this, I really solidified for me when I was on the verge of becoming a mother, that I had spent 10 years as an entrepreneur. Uh, and during that phase, I was mostly single, and I was certainly child, child free, and I was a workaholic, uh, for good or for bad. And, and I loved everything I did. I was choosing these things. I had the day job, the side job, the moonlighting thing. I had so much going on in, in some cases, maybe a little too much. And there were moments of burnout. And I'm, I'm still on that path of figuring out when enough is enough. But I got to this moment where my husband and I decided we wanted to have kids. And I thought, oh my gosh, there's nothing about how I'm living my life, life right now that is consistent with a baby, with toddlers, with, with children in, in, you know, daycare and preschool.

Christina W (00:09:03) - Like, I have to dramatically rethink how I'm going to be professionally fulfilled, how I'm going to bring in the money to support my family, how I'm going to continue to create and make things that matter to me. Because building another company and traveling a hundred thousand miles a year and working 18 hours a day, seven days a week, is not consistent with the type of mother I want to be. And so that was the first real reckoning I had to have with a major rebalance. And that's what led me to join the faculty at Harvard, where I said, if I, I don't have the space to build a startup, but I can definitely teach about them, I can advise and I can invest, and I can stay close to that world while having a ton of flexibility and autonomy and control over my calendar.

ELLA (00:09:57) - Well, part of what you recommend, my understanding is conducting a life audit of sorts. What does that look like in practical terms?

Christina W (00:10:06) - Yeah, I mean, everyone loves the theory, but you're like, okay, but how do you do this? Yeah. Which is a great question. You start with really taking stock of what do you need, which might sound very straightforward, but I think if you, if you sit still long enough and you really kind of work through, not just what do I need in terms of money or prestige, but what do I need to be my best self? Right? Right now, one of the things I need is an office with a door that closes because I have young children, they still don't sleep through the night. And sometimes I just need silence. This season of my life is not conducive to an open office environment. So thinking through, what do you need? Are you in a season where you need, uh, to revitalize your community?

Christina W (00:10:54) - You're feeling really lonely, maybe after three years of work from home, what do you need? And then you start really looking at, well, what do you want for your life? Right? This is, I, I have this, uh, challenge of a hundred wishes in the book. Um, you take a stack of post-its and you start writing down a hundred wishes for your life. And it sounds kind of straightforward until you get to like 30 or 35, and you're like, okay, well I've, I think I've covered everything and uh, I'm not sure how I'm gonna get to a hundred. And I push you to keep going because I think most people really start with career. They start with their ambition. Makes sense. It's top of mind. And then when you say, okay, but what else do you want in your life? What imprint do you want to leave behind?

Christina W (00:11:40) - What experiences do you wanna have? Who do you want to love? That's where you start seeing the like, okay, there are some really big things that I want, and you're not gonna go after all hundred of them every day, but if you say you care about, for example, having a family, but you're not even making time for a first date right now. Maybe we need to rebalance how you're spending your time. So it gives you a chance to kind of dream big as well as having a real critical analysis of what do I need right now? And then you look at the defacto portfolio, what is the actual allocation of your time today? And then you can kind of pull those three things together, all in one big space on your kitchen table or a whiteboard or wherever, and say, which needs are being met? Which needs are not being met? Which wishes am I driving toward? Which wishes don't I have even a minute to think about? And how might I redesign this allocation of time to make sure I'm meeting my needs? And at least roughly I'm driving towards some of these wishes that I know matter.

ELLA (00:12:50) - You know, it's so funny, Christina, because I do, as a part of what I do professionally is I do strategic planning, which often involves incubating, right? a workshop of sorts, and this is strategic, a strategic planning workshop for your life. Can people do this on their own? This feels so communal to me. Like I'm already planning the retreat in my head where we take three days to do this process together because I think that community and accountability in this would be so key. But can people do this on their own? Have you seen that happen?

Christina W (00:13:26) - Well,I know some people can do this on their own, but it really depends on, on who you are and, and what type of thinker you are, what type of, do you need someone to not just hold you accountable, but maybe bounce ideas off of you or gut check some of these things, right. Um, do you need some, some inspiration? Like sometimes you start thinking about wishes and you're like, I don't have wishes. And then you see someone else's wishes and you're like, oh, I actually do want that. Like, can I steal that wish I wish she's having, I'll have what she's having. Exactly.

ELLA (00:13:54) - Okay. Well, I'm ready. I've got the retreat built in my head. We're ready to go.

Christina W (00:13:59) - I can't wait for my Invitation!

ELLA (00:14:00) - That's right. And your licensing fee. <laughs>

ELLA (00:14:05) - If somebody is interested in actually engaging in this process, like I kind of actually wanna hear from you. Okay. So Christina, when we carry these two scenarios that have given you forth mm-hmm. , which is somebody seeking clarity and or someone who's looking to really make a change in the second half of their career mm-hmm. , because a lot of us are sort of at that point, then a huge part of this, obviously one of the first things you're gonna read in anything that you read is to start tapping into your network. Mm-hmm. and Christina, that is very easy to say, but when it comes to, there are several flaws with that plan. One is, okay, but how, and another one is, yeah, but the network I have - If at all - is different than the network that I need. Can I stew in that problem statement with you for a moment?

Christina W (00:14:54) - Absolutely. So I talk at length about, uh, what I call orthogonal networks in the book, which is a fancy mathematical word for perpendicular or non-redundant. And what I mean by that is, you know, if you know all the same people who all know each other, that is an incredibly redundant sort of self-reinforcing network. And there are definitely cases where that type of a close-knit, tight-knit network is very helpful. But we are, we see tons of research that points out our loose connections. Our second degree network is actually where a lot of new ideas come in. These are the things that aren't being recycled through the same conversations. And to do that, you need to know people that other people don't know. And this is where as you think about particularly a, a major pivot or switch in, uh, a season of your life becomes important where you don't wanna talk to the people you already know.

Christina W (00:15:52) - You want to build this in a different direction. And so as you think about these pivots, the first step that I recommend is you start playing in the space that you find interesting. Don't think yet about the professional, think about the play, the exploration, for example, is there a club you can join? Is there a book series or a class you could take? Is there a world where those people already gather that you can invite yourself to? And to start talking to them, get to know them, dabble, see if you like it first . And as part of that, you can show up from day one with something to offer. You're not just there as a Gawker, as an outsider. You can connect them to this whole other world that you're already a part of. So you could say, you know, look, I'm new to the world of AI, but I know a lot about how big companies think about licensing. So I want you to teach me about how generative AI works, and I'm gonna teach you about how big companies get deals done.

ELLA (00:16:55) - It's so funny that you mentioned that because I'm part of a women's executive network, and I went in there as somebody who had owned a consulting company for 20 years and worked with a lot of different industries. And you know, what I'm bringing to the table? I'm constantly doing free webinars on how to start a podcast, or on how to be a better podcast guest and these things, because that is something that is in these other fellow executives lives. Mm-hmm. . Uh, and it is not why I'm there. It's not what I hope to get out of it, but it is something that I can bring to the table to support them with. Exactly.

Christina W (00:17:31) - Exactly. And so every time I'm thinking with someone about making that shift, there's always the question of like, well, what do you want to learn? That's what you get out of this move. And then there's, okay, well what are you gonna bring to the table to, to make you being a learner worth it? Right? What are they getting? If they're teaching you these things, that's great for you. So what can you offer them in exchange to make this a really mutually beneficial relationship and not just a one way take? And that is true whether you are, you know, making a pivot in your mid-career or coming back into the workplace. Maybe you took a, a chapter off to do some caregiving, um, or whether you're right outta college and going into your very first job. I hear a lot of young folks say, well, I have nothing to bring to the table. And I'm like, are you kidding me? I don't understand TikTok. I don't understand half of the things that you guys say. Can you translate, appreciate you? Right? Like, it's helpful. You always bring something. So just be really thoughtful about what do they value and what can I bring to the table, even if that's not why I'm here.

ELLA (00:18:39) - Okay. Tell me about your “coffee chat“ strategy, because once you make a few connections, you need to, you know, dig a little deeper, right? Mm-hmm. and I have a theory, and I think the worst thing you can say to somebody is, Hey, can I pick your brain? I just, I would like to

Christina W (00:18:56) - …Retire that phrase. Yes, please. Yeah. No, I hate it. It sounds, um, it just sounds messy and biological.

ELLA (00:19:03) - It sounds like you're taking, yes. You're taking, taking, taking. Yes. So my recommendation is always to say what you mean and mean what you say. Yes, Christina, what's your strategy?

Christina W (00:19:13) - So it depends on why you are meeting them for coffee. I give an example in the book of a time when my, my first company flat out failed and I was at a loss for what to do next. I couldn't really see what I brought to the table at all. And I was also pretty desperate cuz I was broke and I had to pay rent. So I was like, urgency burning bridge, like, let's go and like, kind of depressed. So I emailed everyone I knew and I said, look, I, I need to grab time with you. We can grab coffee, we could do a walking meeting. I want to make this easy for you because I recognize that I am making the ask here, but here's what I need. I need you to tell me who I am. And, and this is what I mean by that.

Christina W (00:19:59) - I need, I asked three questions. Can you tell me when you've seen me the happiest? Tell me what do you come to me for? Like, what's that spark in your head where you say, I should see what Christina thinks about this. And where do I stand out against my peers? Like what do I spike at? Where is my superpower that I might not even see? Cuz it's so easy for me, I need you to tell me who I am because I don't know. And I said that in the email, like point blank, we're not like, can I pick your brain? It's like, I need your help. And like 70 of them said yes, which was far too many. It was overkill, but it was incredibly clarifying because I got this body of, of data points where I could start to pull out themes of what they heard.

Christina W (00:20:41) - And then as I started going through this, okay, now I'm ready for my job, my next set of coffee chats, I could say, this is what I'm looking for, this is who I am, this is what I need. I would love to chat with you if you know about anyone looking for someone like me. Again, clarity about the purpose of the conversation and hopefully what I can offer in exchange for their time. And if you have truly nothing you can offer, sometimes it's just really nice to say that you say, I recognize that I'm, I'm asking, I'm not giving and I hope that you'll forgive that and I will absolutely pay this back in kind.

ELLA (00:21:18) - I find that you can almost always introduce that person who is giving up their time to someone else of value. Absolutely. Absolutely. Whether it's, I mean, it could literally be somebody to help them with their landscaping, , to a professional contact obviously. So

Christina W (00:21:34) - I mean, if you can introduce me to a babysitter like that is gold. Exactly. I would buy you the fanciest coffee at Starbucks. You know,

ELLA (00:21:43) - I'm just picturing you having no money and paying for coffees

Christina W (00:21:48) - Times. Oh God, I didn't pay for coffees. I also said in the email, I'm also broken. You have to pay for the coffee . But again, I told them upfront and they were like, I get it, I get it. And what was helpful, you know, many of them said this. They said, you have been so generous in our relationship up to this point. You have paid into the bank account if we wanna be transactional about it so many times that in this moment when you need to take a depo, like a a withdrawal, by all means I'll pay for your coffee.

ELLA (00:22:17) - So someone's listening right now, Christina, and they're like, I haven't built the network, I have not invested in that. I haven't been able to, you know, the why does not matter. The net result is I don't even know who I would call. What do you say to that person?

Christina W (00:22:33) - You start by thinking about how you can be helpful in the world. And I truly believe that. Like, I don't see networking, I hate the word networking in the first place. It sounds so transactional. And I think net good networks are just relationships. They're relationships that are built on more than just trading of value. They are shared, shared interests, they are shared experiences. And there's always someone that you can help to do something. And some of my best networking moments, most productive if you will, have come out of absolutely left field. So start by being genuine, be helpful, be a real person, and then get to know people a little deeper and try to see how you might be able to plug in and have something to offer. A lot of people want to help people who are lovely.

ELLA (00:23:26) - I think it's very easy to overlook the power of volunteering for something. And another way of saying that is helping for free. Yeah. Because volunteering connotates like a, a view of you working at a soup kitchen or picking up litter or something. And that's great. That's fantastic. Mm-hmm. . But what I really mean is working for free. Yes. So whether someone's, let's say someone's trying to put on an event mm-hmm. and you go to support it gratis so that you can learn and make connections or mm-hmm. , I mean, honestly, I won't sit here and list ways you can work for free, but let me tell you something. If somebody was trying to make a connection and they offered to do some of my social media services for free, they're my new best friend .

Christina W (00:24:06) - Like, and there's so much, and this is truly when you get to know someone, you start realizing, okay, well maybe, you know, I can help with like passing out the goodie bags at this whatever, but like maybe also their daughter's about to have a big birthday and I am great at making cakes and suddenly this thing that I like doing is the thing that they hate doing. And I can bond with them by making a cake, spending time with them. And we can talk about what this new thing is. Right? There's so many different ways that this can, this can come to fruition. Okay?

ELLA (00:24:35) - I have to tell you this story. I went to a ball, I don't mean to brag, but it was a ball

Christina W (00:24:39) - A real ball Okay. With like poofy gowns and everything.

ELLA (00:24:43) - I mean, there was no poof in my very awesome gown, but I was surrounded by some poof. It was a fancy ball, capital B. Okay? There were like ambassadors there from other countries. I am just having myself a good time bebopping around talking to everybody. And there was the most exquisite cake and it had a portrait on the cake. Anyway, it was spectacular. It was very beautiful. And there's a lady standing by the cake and she was clearly the cake maker. And I started chatting with her and I was like, this is absolutely exquisite. Like, how can you let people eat this? Uh, this is a work of art. Um, why don't you just take it back home. And she said, you know, I make this cake for free and I do it every year.

ELLA (00:25:26) - And I said, oh, and tickets to this event were like, I'll be honest, we were guests of somebody, but tickets to this event were, you know, several hundred dollars let's say per person. Yeah. And she said, yeah, I make the cake. It takes hours and hours and hours. And now guess what? I'm at the ball very year. She is at the ball. (I'm just gonna keep saying ball.) She's at this event with high net worth individuals or highly connected people, is really what I mean to say. And she's there every year, quote unquote for free. Obviously she traded her very precious time and her gift and her services. But what a genius. Yes. And the woman literally made a cake.

Christina W (00:26:03) - . No, that's exactly it. And so I think when people feel at a loss for what to do, my advice to them is like, just do something. Right? I think sometimes we overthink and we are, we're staring at a blank piece of paper or an open, you know, blank email and we're like, who am I? What am I, what am I gonna offer? Who would I email? I don't have anything to, uh, right. Like we, we spiral. And I think in those moments, literally any action that is forward motion that gets you a conversation, some, some, you know, opportunity to interact with someone is gonna help you build that momentum to start that networking process.

ELLA (00:26:43) - Well, I'm going to connect the dots from where we started this conversation. And that is that bringing a level of self-awareness to the conversation is so critical. And I have fumbled this ball so many times, , and what I mean is not the self-awareness. Self-awareness is lovely and great and we're big fans, but what I'm talking about is the awareness of what you want. It's actually super critical to say specifically what you are seeking. And I'll give you an example. When I was Wendy, I graduated from school and I was still quite young. I think I was 20 when I left university. And somebody hooked me up with an interview, you know, the dream, somebody just gets you an interview through no merit of your own . And, and they hooked me up just not, not a job interview, but a hey kid, what are you looking for? What kind of job are you seeking? And my motto is very much like will work for food, right? Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . So I did zero introspection and this adult human was saying to me, Hey Ella, like what are you interested in? Are you interested in sales, operations, marketing, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, yeah. And they said, are you interested in a product or a service? And I was like, “Yes. Like all of them are so exciting. I'm so good with people!” <laughs>

ELLA (00:27:55) - All right. So let's give a break to 20 year old me. All right, ,

ELLA (00:27:59) - But here I am just a couple years later and I am still struggling with that clarity. Therefore, and this is the point that I'm attempting to make here. Mm-hmm. struggling with that clarity compromises reduces my ability to leverage my network. Correct. If I'm having an identity crisis about who I'm trying to be next, it's very, very difficult to leverage the power of the network. That's why I just think it is so critical to start with some kind of, to use your words, life audit. It's yes. Critical to start with some kind of awareness and clarity.

Christina W (00:28:36) - Yes. And that's why when I had this, you know, total spiral when my first company imploded, the first thing I did was figure out who I was and what I had to offer. That was the only point of those first conversations. And then my next batch of conversations were, this is who I am and what I have to offer. Do you know of anyone looking like looking for someone like me?

ELLA (00:28:58) - Okay. You say something else that really struck me that I'd love for you to explain to us. You say forget mentors, seek directors. Yes. First of all, can you explain what you mean by director and then share the concept in its entirety?

Christina W (00:29:11) - Yeah. So I'm referring to directors like company directors, board of directors, and if you are the c e o of your life, who do you want on the board of directors that you go to for advice, for critical feedback, for strategy, for negotiating, for giving you some tough love and some cheerleading. Right? And the great thing about a board of directors is they go through seasons too, right? Like, you don't have to pick someone and say, will you be on my board of directors for the next 40 years? It's like, for the next couple of years I'm going in the same direction as you. You seem to be a decade ahead of me, and you've got some great advice. Like, can I come to you for, for advice from time to time, can we hang out? Can you take a look at this contract I just got offered and help me figure out how to negotiate it a little bit better.

Christina W (00:29:57) - So, you know, it doesn't have to be like this formal, uh, board of directors. I don't, you don't need to throw a retreat or get matching t-shirts. You don't even have to say the words like, will you be on my board of directors? That's also a little weird. But I think if you have that mental model, I'm not looking for one person who's gonna be everything to me. I'm looking for, let's call it a handful of folks who can weigh in on my strategy, my compensation, my uh, my teaming. They can give me feedback about how I'm showing up in the world. Those people, they're your directors and over time you might grow out of one of them or two or five, you might go in a different direction and then that naturally kind of tapers off and you bring new folks in

ELLA (00:30:45) - And you take the t-shirt back

Christina W (00:30:46) - And you take the t-shirt back.

ELLA (00:30:48) - I think this is such a useful model, and I'm relieved that you say that. You don't have to tell them,

ELLA (00:30:54) - But I think that a lot of us do this by accident. Mm-hmm. and probably too small. And how brilliant to be intentional about this and to actually seek to fill certain seats for certain reasons. Mm-hmm. . So you named a few, like somebody who will give you constructive feedback. Ideally everybody would, but you, you sometimes know mm-hmm. when there's a resource that you life that will give it to you straight. Yep. And that versus someone who is more of your cheerleader mm-hmm. , and then someone who is particularly good, for example, at negotiation mm-hmm. or at, you know, industry specific, et cetera. Yes. Et cetera. I love the idea of being intentional about that instead of sort of reflecting back and thinking about who that is in your life. Mm-hmm. . Okay. Christina, I know my people and I know that a few of them are thinking, okay, but no, like, this is

ELLA (00:31:47) - This is scary, and I might fall flat on my face. Mm-hmm. and I talk about the concept of failure and redefining failure a lot. And I would just, I would like your take on why we should not be swayed or persuaded against what we are called to do or what we feel like we might even just wanna dabble in because of a fear of failure. What's your take?

Christina W (00:32:11) - Yeah. So I, I wrote a whole chapter on failure because I fear it too. And it cannot stop you. Right? You, you cannot let this be the reason that you live an entire life. That is just half of what it could have been. And I point to, you know, we go back to the financial model, you build risk into your portfolio intentionally, and then you diversify against it, right? You do both. You want risk because without risk, there's no reward. If you didn't, you would just put cash under your mattress. And then in times of inflation sucks to be you. So you want to take some risks, and then you think about diversification so that you're not gonna lose your shirt if one of these things doesn't pan out. And so I, I look to that same example in your portfolio life. You want to take chances in some ways.

Christina W (00:33:06) - Maybe pick up a hobby where you're like, I don't know if I'm gonna be any good at that. You're like, well, what's the cost of being bad? Maybe a little ego hit . Maybe you don't invite your friends to your, you know, uh, improv show at the end of the class. Like, I don't know. But what if you're good at it? Or what if you learn you really like it? The upside is so much greater than the downside, but you have to be willing to be bad at something to do that. So, so there's this, this idea, I think so many of us, high performing, high achieving folks have from an early stage of like, I am someone who succeeds, right? There's a narrative that we tell ourselves, I am someone who succeeds. And this idea of trying something that you're bad at is literally contrary to that, that story you tell yourself.

Christina W (00:33:54) - And so to start this path, you have to change that narrative. You have to change that story. I really struggled with this when my first company failed. I was like, uh, like does not compute. Like I don't fail. And yet the evidence is to the contrary. And so I, I started long distance running because I am a terrible runner. Truly terrible. I run a six hour marathon. Like that's slow bad runner. But, but it gave me the opportunity to change that narrative of I'm someone who succeeds to, I'm someone who shows up and works really hard, and at the finish line I get a bagel and a selfie, and sometimes I get a medal. And that's fun too, right? I'm someone who show enjoys the process. I am someone who sees the benefit from this, even if I'm not amazing, right? All of those things then set me up for being willing to take risks in other ways.

Christina W (00:34:49) - Writing a book proposal, selling a book, writing a whole thing, and then publishing it and not knowing if the entire world is going to hate it, or not. That's a big risk. So part of this is getting comfortable with this idea that it may not turn out the way you want to, which is basically how I define failure. It didn't turn out the way you wanted it to, and it might have been your fault. It might have been something outside of your control anyway, around it. You learn something about yourself or the world or both, and now you have more information and you can move forward. Failure

ELLA (00:35:25) - Is just a different input. It can tend to be a more painful one in a lot of ways, but it's just more information. Yeah. Um, you share a model in your book about expectation versus reality. Mm-hmm. and, and we are taught this myth that success. Mm-hmm. is a straight linear line . It is a, an uncooked spaghetti noodle in all its firmness, just like, and

Christina W (00:35:48) - Then up and to the right. Yeah.

ELLA (00:35:49) - Right. And then real life is cooked spaghetti and it's a, a big entangled mess of curved lines and mm-hmm. intertwined and et cetera, et cetera. And a model that I have embraced and made my own and now teach in our workshops, Christina, is rather, i, I sort of reject the binary now of success and failure. And I realize the literal model I've replaced it with in my head is one of a spiral. Yes. And it is all iterative. Mm-hmm. . So even when you fail, you're never falling back down to the starting point. Because by definition you have had the experiences, you have gained the insight arguably more if when it, when it doesn't work out. And that's an education. And you are never starting at zero again. So you might be set back a tiny bit on one of your spirals, and then when you get some momentum, you go a bit more forward and you can level up that spiral. Yes. But when we think about the fact that failure is absolutely a baked in guaranteed mm-hmm. part of success,

ELLA (00:36:55) - Instead of being binary poll, you know, yes. Polar opposites. Then I think we're onto something. I think it frees us up a little bit to accept it as a part of the process. Well,

Christina W (00:37:07) - In particular, because I think, I agree with you, I, I don't believe that there is such a thing as failure or success because it implies a certain, uh, time period, an end, right? It's, it's like are you looking back at the end of the story? Because there are lots of stories that look like they're gonna be one and then they turn into another. If you give it another year, another decade, another chapter, whatever, you're never done. And so there's no value in being evaluative on did I, did I succeed or fail? Was it worth it or not? Back to your point, you never go all the way back to the be beginning. You start from a new starting point. And this is true whether you're changing careers, this is true. Whether you're getting divorced and starting a new relationship halfway through life in all of these circumstances, you know so much more than you did the last time you did this. And that's gonna change what you do next.

ELLA (00:38:04) - We are not succeeding, we are not failing. We are iterating.

Christina W (00:38:09) - , we're living.

ELLA (00:38:11) - Christina, thank you so much for your time and thank you for this great book that I'm going to recommend to my network. My orthogonal . Did I say, did I say it right? I was not a math major. Christina, thank you for your time. We will share your book, the Portfolio Life with everybody. Where would you like to be found?

Christina W (00:38:32) - You can find me on LinkedIn. Turns out that is the social network where everyone's hanging out these days. You can follow me there or you can head to my website, christinawallace.com. You can join my mailing list. I think I send three things a year. It's very inbox safe.

ELLA - Same girl. Same . Thank you, Christina.

Christina W - You're very welcome. Thanks for having me.